Russell: [00:00:00] Thanks for downloading the 12th in our series of episodes of the csuite podcast that we’re recording in partnership with the European PR Agency Tyto, and their own Without Borders podcast, where we are interviewing leaders of unicorn companies to find out about the key issues, pain points and challenges that start-ups face and how they can address them with a strategic approach to marketing and communications. My name is Russell Goldsmith and my co-host for the series of interviews is Tyto’s Founder, Brendon Craigie. And today we’re thrilled to be joined online from Israel by Chen Amit Co-Founder and CEO of Tipalti, a fintech start-up that reached unicorn status in October 2020 after raising $150m in a Series E round. Welcome to the show Chen. We should probably start by you giving us a quick introduction to the business.
Chen: [00:00:45] Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Tipalti solves the global accounts payable challenge for fast growing companies and the mid-market. The challenge is that, especially mid-market companies, the CFOs, they are trying to become reputable to play the high game. They’ve gone through audits, they understand compliance. But in a mid-market company, finance is not where CEOs want to devote resources, want to invest in, they’d rather to invest in probably anything else but suppliers and accounts payable. And therefore, when they when they acquire a solution, it needs to be very broad, very comprehensive and deep. And that’s what we do. We cover the gamut of accounts payable challenges be it supplier onboarding, supplier vetting, tax compliance, AML compliance, currency management, invoice processing, PO matching, ERP integrations, reconciliation, just a very broad set of challenges, which is one of the big challenges of accounts payable that it’s really a set and many discrete functions under one umbrella. And we do it in a holistic, organically grown, integrated easy to consume solution. We are a financial institution of sorts called money transmitter. We’re processing around $18bn annually, growing roughly 100 percent year over year. And one of the key metrics we are most proud of is 99 percent annual gross, dollar retention.
So, when we sign up customers and they stay with us for the remainder of their life.
Brendon: [00:02:30] Just building on some of the points you were been talking about, that there Chen, is there particular aspects of your business that’s drawing customers to you over and above your competitors. And I don’t know whether you can maybe elaborate a bit more on why you’ve managed to attract so many fast growing, well-known tech brands to your business as customers.
Chen: [00:02:53] Yeah, we definitely you know, you have your Amazon, Twitch, you have your Twitter, GoDaddy, Duolingo, GitLab, Medium, indeed many of those fast growing tech leaders among our customers. And they are the early adopters, right. They are those Forward-Looking CFOs who want to spend their time on strategic topics. They don’t want to spend their time on mundane, cumbersome, risky labour-intensive, relatively low value add tasks that are around accounts payable. And they are looking for like they’re going to motion is automation. They expect things to be automated. Right. These tech companies, they automate left and right. And that’s why they are the early adopters. And I think it’s typical to our customers they will be forward looking thought leaders, strategic CFOs who understand that they shouldn’t be doing those AP functions manually and they need to automate them. Many of them will have multiple entities, you know, a subsidiary here, subsidiary there that will make their life so much more complex. They will have some cross-border activity, it’ll be a little bit more complex than your grocery store, so to speak.
Brendon: [00:05:26] That’s really interesting. That makes a lot of sense what you’re saying about the early adopter point. And I guess that bodes well for the future. Thinking about the current environment, there’s been a lot of discussion about companies investing in digital transformation and investing in greater automation. I was curious to get your perspective on how you see the tech stack within the finance operation evolving and where you see your role within that.
Chen: [00:04:41] I think Covid actually amplified the need for digitization in the finance department. Right. If you are a CFO and you used to sit next door from your CEO and sign a cheque, you know, your controller will bring in a cheque, you will sign, your CEO will co-sign it. Now, you might be 50 miles apart and it’s just not available for you. You now need better financial controls because maybe your business is under pressure with Covid. Maybe you needed to do more with less people. So, you need the automation. All of those are really some of the drivers driving digitization in general in the finance office and accelerating specifically a global accounts payable, like Tipalti does. But more so, I think a part of our mission is to really integrate the finance operation, the financial operations with the business operations, to be coexistent and merged and should be natural to move from one decision to an action and not to be so separated as it is today between what you’re doing, your business, and then you need to turn to your bank to legacy old. You know, send a fax now you still get your bank to ask you to send a fax and I don’t know if anyone has a fax these days! We’re looking to integrate as many of the functions into the business workflow to be intertwined. When I described what we do and how broad we go, this is really part of the vision, to make it natural integration of business processes and financial operations. That also allows us to bring enterprise great capabilities to the mid-market, kind of like Amazon did for computing, where before Amazon Web Services you need to be a giant to have your own data servers and now you can be a digital start-up and have your data server available for you. We will do that, or we are doing that for financial capabilities and are bringing some of those that are only available for enterprise customers accessible to the mid-market.
Russell: [00:06:55] Just going back to that recent investment in your business that I mentioned in the intro. So, if I’ve got that right now that’s raised the company valuation to two or over two billion, how has becoming a unicorn changed the perception of the company, would you say?
Chen: [00:07:10] It definitely adds credibility, right, when you see serious investors, right. These are marquee, very reputable investors, some of the leaders of growth and what’s called crossover like those are investors that invest in the phases between growth and going public when they go all in on a company like Tipalti, it adds credibility, recognition. I think other developments in our category are also strengthening the positioning of the category as a whole. But, yeah, now when we speak with candidates, they know us, they’ve heard of us. When we speak with customers, they know of us and heard of us. We’re that hidden hidden gem, so to speak. We weren’t very vocal for many years. But, this round of funding elevated our recognition let’s say.
Brendon: [00:08:04] On the topic of hiring, you just mentioned that you also kind of announced, I think, last year that you were planning to integrate the headcount of the business by 70 percent. I was just curious to understand how your views on hiring and building your team has changed since the pandemic, have you changed your approach in terms of how you would build that team?
Chen: [00:08:26] Yeah, we went through we went through a few cycles when the pandemic or from our perspective, when the pandemic hit, when we understood that the pandemic hit back in March, we paused our hiring. We didn’t lay off anyone, but we said this is so, so out of the norm. We just need to pause for a moment and see where the world is going. But really, after a couple of months, we understood that from a business perspective, we were at a minimum not hurt. We actually saw some traction, accelerated traction and went back to hiring. We had a goal back in July where the goal was to hire 100 people. And we fell short of that goal. We hired 70 out of the 100 and we are now 400 and some people and we expect to finish the year with seven hundred and seventy people. So, we are hiring three hundred and seventy people or three hundred sixty people throughout the end of the year. So still aggressive, aggressive hiring plans. And it’s not only the number of people that we need because we’re growing so fast, but it’s also how do you cope with it during covid? How do you interview, how do you onboard? All of these things are great, great challenges. I think for now I understand the business and understand the market. We have the go to market, we’re doing well on all of that. And I think the risk there is moderate. The risk or the unknown or the skill that we need to build, the muscle that we need to strengthen is around hiring, interviewing, onboarding. Under covid, we’ve done a lot of it already and we’re getting better and better. And that’s a real area of focus for the whole company.
Brendon: [00:10:13] On that, in terms of your approach to bringing talent on, we’ve spoken to some CEOs on it in these discussions where they’ve really had a shift of mindset as far as where people need to be located. And I don’t know, has that affected your approach to hiring?
Chen: [00:10:31] I believe, and there’s actually data and research to support that, that when you are in a growth stage, when you’re still creating and building and there are a lot of unknowns and you need to whiteboard and collaborate, if you value the group work, then you need to be in one room. Zoom doesn’t solve for that. It’s very efficient. Zoom it’s very efficient. But in some ways, especially around the creative part, it’s not very effective. So, it’s very efficient, not very effective, especially at growth level in young companies and growing companies. And we’re still young. We’re still building a tone. Right. We’re hiring so many developers and we’re building so many new initiatives that still need that collaboration and that brainstorming. At the same time there are roles in Tipalti that are more structured require less of that collaboration, just require good onboarding and training and good resources for these people to work. For those roles who are more liberal in where these people are, for the core roles that require collaboration at the major functions in the company, some of the major functions of company, engineering and product, sales and marketing, we believe that the long term vision for us is still in in-office company, but we’re flexible where we can.
Russ: [00:11:53] It’s great to hear, the continued growth through the pandemic. I was just wondering how it’s impacted the markets that you serve and also your clients and partners. Has it generated any challenges that you’ve had to overcome at all?
Chen: [00:12:05] So from our customer base, we have an interesting mix of customers. Some of the customers that you’ve mentioned actually caught tailwind and some of them caught significant tailwinds through Covid. Right. If you are a streaming company, a gaming company, an e-commerce company, you’re doing better because people are at home, they stream more, they play more, they buy online more. So many of our larger customers are those. And we’ve seen them just, you know, grow incredibly. Many of our customers are in the physical domain, whether it is around gyms or travel or other areas. And they’ve been like, you know, most of the rest of the economy. But in the grand scheme of things, we’re actually benefiting just a little bit more from those who caught tailwinds. So, we’re fortunate that way. From a partner perspective, I don’t think we’ve seen any significant impact on our partner front. Obviously, real estate is tricky. In March we were looking for a new place in Israel, looking for a new place in San Mateo, looking for a new place in Vancouver and looking for a new place in London all at the same time. And we were lucky that it caught us just before we signed any agreement. So that is all on hold. But now in Israel, we are going back to looking for a new place, the current place with the current headcount is already overflowing. And so we need to find a new place. But I think that all our partners performed very well and we didn’t have any hiccups on those fronts.
Brendon: [00:13:52] There’s that expression of necessity being the mother of invention, and I just I think you touched on some of this earlier about the pandemic has forced businesses to change how they work. I just wondered, are there things within the fintech space that you’ve been particularly excited about that have emerged through the pandemic as cases of innovation?
Chen: [00:14:15] Yeah, I think it’s not so much new innovation, but the pace of or the acceleration of the creation of categories like ours and many others and in other areas as well. But for us and for CFOs, by the way, it’s great for the economy. It’s great for those CFOs that through covid the pace of this category being created of adoption, of moving from early adopters to late adopters to early majority and so on, is accelerating. It will make all those companies who adopt these technologies more efficient. It will really shift the focus of those CFOs and the VPs of finance to more value adding, being able to add more value in strategic areas of their business. So that is really exciting, exciting, obviously, for us as a business, but really exciting for me when I look at the growth in the economy and efficiencies are really critical to economic development. So here you see how Covid will improve efficiencies and will actually drive economic development while we’re suffering through all of this. So, this is exciting. Yeah, that’s that’s the part that excites me most.
Brendon: [00:15:35] One of the focus areas of this this series of conversations we are having with unicorn CEOs is understanding issues around communications and culture. And so, I was just wondering if we could touch a little bit on what’s your philosophy and approach to raising awareness and differentiating yourself in such a crowded environment.
Chen: [00:15:54] So for us, the category we operate in is really a blue ocean. It’s white space, blue ocean and whatever colour and term you want to attach to it. But there are roughly between 600,000, a million companies in our domain, in our target market and between all of the players together, we’re serving three percent, four percent. So, it’s not so much that it’s crowded and noisy. It’s more about getting the word out and getting more people. So, I’m happy with the success of my competitors to a modest degree. They should be careful with that. I want to be more successful, but it’s actually more about building the category and getting the word out and the way we do that again in under covid, our value proposition is so in line with the pains that they have. So just really, really early in March or April, and we realigned our messaging to be very covid aligned about efficiencies, about work from home, about automation, about better financial controls. Just speaking to the pains that our customers have that resonate, we have seen with the response from the prospects from the target audience, obviously be very empathetic to their pains. It’s not that exclusively happy selling exercise “yeah, let’s do it” – some of them are suffering and they need to make changes because they are under stress, showcase how we can help them, help them make the decision, be empathetic and these are the ways we try to get the word out.
Brendon: [00:17:43] I know, culture is such an important quality to a successful business, what’s your approach to building your culture in such a fast-growing company with so many new people joining? How do you try to achieve that?
Chen: [00:17:56] So we just we are as I said, we’re going from this roughly 400 number of employees to around 800. We feel that this is kind of a step a step function, things that we need to change. So, we took a consultant to help us work through that. And she interviewed the executive team and interviewed middle management. And I was really happy to hear that despite part of the team being in Israel, part of the team being in the US, they share the same culture. They understand the vision the same way, they understand the strategy. And the key is the people I choose and the people that they choose and then the people that they choose. Right. It starts with it choosing the right people for this culture and to communicating it and elevating those who exemplify those traits in the culture that we really want to strengthen and correcting and making it very clear and not leaving it to rot in areas that are not in disagreement with our culture and that we need to correct. So, it’s about walking the talk, right? I’m not a big talker for talking sake, I like to have robust results and robust actions behind the talk. So, I think the key for us is hiring the right people, correcting where you need to correct. And in making sure that you actually walk the talk and that you elevate and celebrate those who practice and are examples of those values that you want to strengthen.
Russ: [00:19:36] That actually leads nicely onto the question I wanted to ask about internal communications, because with this growth in the company and obviously you’ve got so many new people coming on board that even locally to you, they might not have even met or been into an office due to Covid and that kind of stuff. So how are you navigating that need to communicate with individuals within the business against the teams and the entire company, particularly, as we’re now, or you are now so geographically spread out, but also people working remotely as well, how are you getting over all that?
Chen: [00:20:12] Yeah, it’s a challenge. Before Covid, I used to travel two weeks every month. I was two weeks in Israel, two weeks in California. And I would meet everyone in some way or fashion. Until we were 130, I interviewed everyone we hired. So that wasn’t that long ago, by the way. Now, I haven’t met more than half of the company. I’ve never been in the same room with more than half of the company. So that’s a challenge. And I really look forward to changing that hopefully soon. When Covid hit, the stress was through the roof. Right. We didn’t know what the impact on the company would be. We didn’t know are we going to suffer like the rest of the economy? Is it like a recession that we’re going to suffer? Now, in hindsight, we aren’t. But the stress among employees was high. And then I increased the pace of communication significantly. I started Slacking every week, every other week, sometimes on a business topic, sometimes just to say ‘Hi, I feel for you. I know that we’re under stress. Don’t worry about it. We’ll get through it.’ And people really responded and really, really appreciated it. In the same interviews that this consultant I mentioned before did, she also came back with strong feedback that we have this monthly all hands meeting that I run with some guests, but people really look forward to it, really listen to it. And generally, I understand it. But when it comes back unaided and people say we really appreciate those all hands and I’m transparent, we share a lot of data. We allow them to ask questions anonymously so they can ask everything. And I try to answer everything. The hardest of hardest questions I ask, I don’t leave any stone unturned. So, when you have that transparency, when you have that ability to ask tough questions and get answers to tough questions, that really helped during the pandemic, and that helps also to build the culture again, we have a very clear cadence of celebrating those who are representative of the culture, those who did something great with the customers, those who really were really strong on collaboration. It’s a really collaborative team celebrating that, celebrating those who exemplify that, just showcasing what we believe in, what makes us successful and doing that good pace, and so that everyone hears from me and understands where we are and just reduces the level of anxiety around the team.
Russ: [00:22:59] You said you were traveling more obviously before all this hit. Do you think you’ll go back to that or do you think you’ve changed the way you work over the last few months?
Chen: [00:23:08] I am, by the way, I have had my second shot last week, my second vaccine shot last week, so I’ll be vaccinated properly this Thursday and I really plan on traveling early March.
Russ: [00:23:23] Really?
Chen: [00:23:23] So, I’m going back to travelling.
Russ: [00:23:24] Right.
Chen: [00:23:25] I’m going back to traveling. I won’t force anyone to meet with me. Right. Because I’m vaccinated. Others are not. But I know some people want to meet with me. I’ll be available, but I expect to go back to traveling when, you know, the level of vaccinations, when the regulations in different geographies allow that. Yeah, I believe in the human touch. I believe in meeting people face to face. I want to be there with my team. I haven’t been with my team for a year now. It’s crazy. I’m just, Zoom and all of that, it’s nice. But I really need – there’s something in walking in the corridor and, you know, poking my head into my CMO’s room and, you know, chitchatting about something. And then the Head of Product comes and we brainstorm and things happen in those meetings. You can be as prescribed and as thoughtful about your approach as you want. But the chit chat, the brainstorm, the oh, you know, what happened yesterday and what, just there’s something that happens when people meet and sparks fly and not only for me, obviously, but for the rest of the team. So, I plan to go on traveling at the moment I can.
Russ: [00:24:36] What about the time that you spend in the air and everything? I mean, how do you use that? Because I can see all the books behind you, do you read a lot on those trips?
Chen: [00:24:47] So, yeah, I have a system. Right. The flight from Tel Aviv to San Francisco is a 14-hour flight, and I do it 14 hour in one day. In 14 days, I’ll do the way back. In 14 days, I’ll fly again. In 14 days, I’ll fly again. So, I have to kill 14 hours in a metal tube every other week. I sleep through the flight. The only way to survive is to sleep through the flights. So I manage my sleep. So, I get to the airplane. Maybe I watch a movie or read something and then I really try to get through the flight, mostly through sleep. It works for me. I’ve done it for probably four years every month.
Russ: [00:25:28] Brilliant. Ok, I want to move on to your role as an external spokesperson. Again, it’s another question we’ve asked all our unicorn leaders to date, because it is quite interesting. Sometimes you get some founders that come up with a great idea, build a company, but they don’t necessarily want to be the face of that company. How have you found being that representative of the business and what have you learned along the way?
Chen: [00:25:52] So it’s not natural to me either, right? It’s something I’ve grown to do a little better year by year. I don’t think I’m an expert by no means, but I definitely am comfortable in the role. For us, it’s really a lot about, for me specifically, it’s a lot about hiring, being the face for the company, for candidates. They see me, when I interview people, they often say, ‘Oh, we’ve seen that podcast, we’ve seen that interview’. So, they get to know a little bit of me. And I think it adds value to the process. Obviously, with investors and analysts. I’m not sure to what extent customers look at those public speaking engagements. I wonder. I’m not sure. I just don’t know. But for employees, for investors and analysts, I think it’s important. I took guides. I had instructors help me with public speaking. Probably every five years I’ll take someone to coach me and help me improve. And probably I’ll need to continue with that for the rest of my life because I’ll never be great at that. I’m doing OK, I think.
Brendon: [00:27:02] And along that journey Chen, have you ever encountered any, like, really challenging communication situations or, what was the biggest communications challenge you faced along that journey?
Chen: [00:27:16] I think it was one of those early coaching exercises way back when that really exposed my biggest challenge, and my biggest challenge was myself. And it still is. I am prone to understatement. I’m not you know, I’m not bragging. I’m not making big statements. And there’s a lot of benefit to that. My latest coach of about a year and a half ago, said, you know, ‘You’re authentic, you’re passionate about what you do. These are the things that capture the audience’. Great. So now I understand what works for me for the first time. But before that, early in my career, I didn’t feel that I had the right to make strong statements and just put it on the table and say, ‘Yeah, we’re strong’, ‘Yeah, we’re going to win’. And all of that. That’s early in my career. So, I think it’s always the biggest challenges were around myself and my shortcomings that are sometimes also advantages.
Brendon: [00:28:25] And thinking of like the audience that is listening to this, who themselves may be aspiring unicorn’s CEOs. I’m just wondering, what’s the best piece of communication advice that someone’s given you. May be in response to that point that you just raised.
Chen: [00:28:40] Be yourself.
Brendon: [00:28:41] Just be yourself, right, OK.
Chen: [00:28:43] Be yourself. Right? I forget the name of that Microsoft CEO running across the stage. Do you remember that video?
Brendon: [00:28:51] Steve Ballmer?
Chen: [00:28:52] Steve Ballmer. So, you have that, maybe that works. You have Elon Musk, who’s kind of has this introvert extrovert. I don’t know exactly – midtrovert approach. It’s about trust, for me, I think it’s about people trusting me being authentic, saying as it is. I always try to do my best. I’m not ashamed in my failures, they are there. I’m not I’m not overly excited about my successes. They are there. Just be honest, be authentic. People will relate to that to. Be yourself.
Russ: [00:29:28] You mentioned a couple of big names there. Is there anyone that inspires you at all?
Chen: [00:29:31] Elon Musk. No doubt Elon Musk. I think he is, what really inspires me about Elon Musk is that there are no limits to his imagination. The sky’s the limit is kind of an understatement for him. Mars is the limit. I’m not sure that he stops in Mars, maybe has other aspirations beyond Mars. So, I really admire, not only thinking big, but acting big. I really like it about him. Obviously, he’s not perfect. And, you know, but no one is. And Bill Gates, I think I really, really look up to Bill Gates, what he’s doing post Microsoft. And just smart, thoughtful leaders. These are the leaders I look up to.
Brendon: [00:30:18] It’s kind of surprising given how much money is invested into the tech space that there aren’t more people like Elon Musk with these kind of big grand visions. Because you can probably go back in time, I don’t know, 50 years or so and the idea of going to Mars wouldn’t have been such an extraordinary thing. Whereas today he stands out as someone with huge ambitions. And I wonder, why does he stand out so much? And like clearly, he is a very ambitious guy, but why aren’t there more Elon Musks?
Chen: [00:30:50] I think I hope we will have more and more. Right. Elon Musk was a very wealthy individual at a young age. But he’s also, he’s taking it to extreme, right? He was close to being personally bankrupt while investing in SpaceX and while investing in Tesla. So, this is really to the extreme. But I think the current economy you know, you’re making the show about a unicorn, you’ll have more unicorns, more entrepreneurs who have more capacity to do great things and hopefully we’ll see more of that. I think Bill Gates trying to cure diseases, right? It’s not a small feat. He wants to cure diseases. This is phenomenal. I agree with you. We need more. And there’s hope that with the current barrage of unicorns and money in the hands of entrepreneurs, we’ll see more of that.
Russ: [00:31:47] Just thinking actually on that. For your own company in terms of what the next stage of your development of the business. I’m not suggesting you’re going to be flying off to Mars next. But, you know, what’s the outlook for the company and the plans for the future?
Chen: [00:32:00] As I said, the category, the market is sparsely populated, to say the least. Four percent penetration. And we are not the four percent. We are part of the four percent. So, we can double and double and double for many years to come and still just scratch the surface. So high growth is here to stay for many years to come. That’s from a commercial revenue perspective. We’re also in what I coin the third chapter of the company. The first chapter was around those Twitches and Twitters and GoDaddys, they have a certain flair to them that we really cornered that market, it’s ours. We have the best solution now, we own that, so to speak, we provide an unparalleled solution and we’re doing a great job there. Then probably four, five, six years ago, we started with traditional accounts payable, invoice processing, PO matching and so forth. The current chapter, we’re hiring aggressively also for the engineering and product part. And we’re more than doubling that function in the company this year. And in the next two years, we will invest in the product more than we did in the previous 10 years combined. Those investments will take us to that next level of really continuing to expand our solution footprint to help CFOs and VPs finance more, automate more and really accomplish that vision of integrating the workflows with financial operations, the business workflows with financial operations, and making enterprise grade financial products accessible to mid-market companies. So, it’s a growth just because the market expects us and will absorb what we can deliver to the market, but also expanding the vision for the product and solving more and doing so much more. I believe in a few years’ time we will completely revolutionize the office of the CFO for mid-market companies.
Russ: [00:34:20] Exciting stuff. Chen we’ve got one final question for you. We’ve asked all our unicorn guests this, unicorn leader guests this, if you would go back in time and speak to your old self, what guidance would you give yourself about communications and what steps would you encourage yourself to take in order for you and your business to excel in communications?
Chen: [00:34:43] It’s about being yourself. Don’t look at other communicators and say, ‘Wow, how can I become that communicator?’ Be yourself, people will trust yourself the way you come forward clean. Practice. I think those coaches I’ve worked with in the past were important, so practice. And talk more, for me at least. Right. I’m not a complete introvert. I’m a semi-introvert, but be more communicative. People actually want to listen to me. It’s something it’s a new epiphany for me, but the team really wants to hear from me and I need to speak with them more. So, I think these would be some of the advice I would give my younger self.
Russ: [00:35:25] Tremendous. Chen Amit, thank you so much for joining us both online today. Thank you.
Chen: [00:35:33] Thank you.
Russ: [00:35:33] Well, Brendon, Chen’s our second unicorn leader from Israel, actually, so just a reminder for listeners, if you search the archives, you’ll find our interview with Arik Shtilman of Rapyd. What did you think of what Chen had to say?
Brendon: [00:35:46] I guess on a lighter note, I have a lot of sympathy for his appreciation and desire to spend time with his team and not just do all of your communication, you know, remotely. And I can kind of really sympathize with that. But then I think the thing that on a more strategic level, which I really valued, was his opinion around like for spokespeople to really be true to themselves. And don’t try and kind of mimic other people’s communication styles, but really be true to themselves. Whether you’re slightly introverted or whether you are naturally an extrovert, just be authentic. And that will win the trust and confidence of the people that you’re communicating with. So, I think that was the key point I took away from them.
Russ: [00:36:35] Yeah, definitely. Well, that’s actually it for the latest episode in this series with Tyto. If you want to find out more about Tipalti, their website is very simply Tipalti.com. We’d love to hear your comments on today’s chat and you can do that via our Facebook page, LinkedIn, Instagram or Twitter feeds or comment in the YouTube channel as well. And those are all linked from the top of the website at csuitepodcast.com, where you’ll also find all our previous shows and show notes plus links to where you can subscribe for automatic downloads of each episode via the likes of Spotify and Apple. And if you like what you’ve heard, please do give us a positive rating and review. We’re, of course, available on all podcast apps. Just search for the csuite podcast and hit subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also subscribe to the Without Borders podcast from our partners at Tyto. All the details of that are on their website. So just head to TytoPR.com and click on the podcast link in the top navbar. If you are a unicorn leader yourself and you’d like to be part of this podcast series, please do get in touch with us via the contact form on the website. That’s at csuitepodcast.com. Plus, of course, anyone can get in touch too, with any feedback you may have. Finally, you can also reach me via Twitter using @russgoldsmith or you can find me on LinkedIn. But for now, thanks for listening and goodbye.